Frank Knight: It’s time for the Longines Chronoscope, a tele­vi­sion jour­nal of the impor­tant issues of the hour. Brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A pre­sen­ta­tion of the Longines-Wittnauer Watch Company, mak­er of Longines, the world’s most hon­ored watch. And Wittnauer, dis­tin­guished com­pan­ion to the world hon­ored Longines.

Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I intro­duce our coed­i­tors for this edi­tion of the Longines Chronoscope, Mr. William Bradford Huie, edi­tor of the American Mercury, and Mr. Henry Hazlitt, con­tribut­ing edi­tor of Newsweek mag­a­zine. Our dis­tin­guished guest for this evening is the hon­or­able Joseph R. McCarthy, United States Senator from Wisconsin. The opin­ions expressed are nec­es­sar­i­ly those of the speakers.

William Bradford Huie: Senator McCarthy, our view­ers of course know that you are one of the most con­tro­ver­sial polit­i­cal fig­ures of our time, and this is your first appear­ance since your rather over­whelm­ing vic­to­ry in the Wisconsin pri­maries. Now sir, what that brings you East at this time?

Joseph R. McCarthy: Your pro­gram large­ly, Mr. Huie.

Huie: And I believe that also this week, you expect to make an address in Connecticut. Is that cor­rect, sir?

McCarthy: I’m speak­ing tomor­row night at the Klein Memorial Hall at Bridgeport, Connecticut.

Huie: And of course our view­ers know that day in Connecticut, that’s the home state of a man that you had a few words with, Senator Bill Benton. Now sir, what’s the pur­pose of your going into Connecticut? Is it to defeat Senator Benton or to try to help defeat Senator Benton?

McCarthy: My pur­pose, Mr. Huie, will be about the same as the pur­pose in some twelve, thir­teen states that I’ll vis­it. That’s to bring impor­tant facts to the American peo­ple. You see, I’ve got a very strong feel­ing that most of our peo­ple in pub­lic life under­es­ti­mate the intel­li­gence of the American peo­ple. And they try to argue and tell peo­ple how to vote. I think you need mere­ly give the peo­ple the facts, and then you can go home and don’t wor­ry. They’ll vote right. 

Huie: Now at Bridgeport, Connecticut do I under­stand you cor­rect when you say that you are open­ing a twelve or thir­teen state dri­ve now, in sup­port of the nation­al ticket?

McCarthy: I think I’ll be in… I may be wrong in the num­ber, Mr. Huie. I think that I am now sched­uled to speak in some thir­teen or four­teen states where they have close sen­a­to­r­i­al contests.

Henry Hazlitt: Senator, a lot of peo­ple came into your state, into Wisconsin, to try to defeat you in the pri­maries. And it seemed to have worked the oth­er way. Now don’t you think that per­haps when you go into these states it may have that’s sort of effect?

McCarthy: [pro­nounc­ing with a hard a] Well Mr. Hazlitt… That’s pro­nounced Hazlitt, right?

Hazlitt: That’s right.

McCarthy: I’m sor­ry. Mr. Hazlitt, I do not intend to go into those states and tell the peo­ple how to vote. I don’t intend to go in and dis­cuss the local men run­ning for Congress or for Senator. I intend to go into those states and give the American peo­ple the cold, doc­u­ment­ed pic­ture of the sell­out in Korea, the extent to which com­mu­nism has been direct­ing our for­eign pol­i­cy. Our sui­ci­dal for­eign pol­i­cy, if you please. And if the American peo­ple want more of that, then they can vote for the present administration.

I may say this, that my appeal is large­ly made to Democrats. I feel that the mil­lions of Americans who have long vot­ed the Democrat tick­et are just as loy­al, they love America just as much, they hate com­mu­nism just as much, as the aver­age Republican. And I think it is up to those loy­al Democrats to real­ize that as of today they don’t have a par­ty in Washington. The only way they can have a change is by vot­ing Republican.

Hazlitt: Well, do you think about a lot of Democrats came in and vot­ed for you in the Wisconsin election?

McCarthy: I don’t think it, I know it. Our nor­mal— Let’s put it this way. Two years ago, the Democratic vote was about 47% of the total; Republican vote 53%. This year we had a… Let’s see, I think these fig­ures are right. Eighty-three per­cent Republican vote; 17% Democrat vote. And most of the Democrats cur­rent­ly vot­ed for McCarthy, because I car­ried the Democrat wards nor­mal­ly bet­ter than I car­ried the Republican wards. Which proves my con­tention. That is that in this fight against com­mu­nism, it isn’t a Democrat fight, it isn’t a Republican fight. And for that rea­son I don’t go into any state and tell the peo­ple how to vote.

Hazlitt: What is the broad­er inter­pre­ta­tion of your own vic­to­ry in Wisconsin, as you see it?

McCarthy: Well I would say, Mr. Hazlitt, num­ber one it was not a vote for McCarthy. It was a vote on an issue, an all-important issue. The American peo­ple rec­og­nized that the one real issue, not the pho­ny issue, was the issue of com­mu­nism, cor­rup­tion, all tied up with the Korean War. And World War…call it two and a half, call it a police action, call it what you may. It means that the American peo­ple are sick way down deep inside at what’s been going on. And I’d like to con­sid­er it a trib­ute to McCarthy. But it does not—it was a vote upon on an all-important issue, and I just hope that many of our good friends real­ize that that is the issue this year.

Huie: But you imply, Senator, by say­ing that they did­n’t vote for McCarthy— You imply that you’ve become some­thing of a sym­bol now to a large group of Americans. Now, just what do you believe you sym­bol­ize in the American polit­i­cal scene now?

McCarthy: I don’t quite like the way you put that ques­tion, Mr. Huie. Let’s put it this way. Many peo­ple have been wait­ing for some­one to expose the extent to which our sui­ci­dal for­eign pol­i­cy has been dic­tat­ed from the Kremlin. They’ve been wait­ing for some­one to real­ly get up and fight cor­rup­tion the way men like Senator Williams have fought it. And I think my peo­ple in Wisconsin were vot­ing in approval of a fight against com­mu­nism, cor­rup­tion, the sell­out of American inter­ests. And they weren’t vot­ing for Joe McCarthy.

McCarthy: I hap­pen to be the recip­i­ent of the vote, and I cer­tain­ly appre­ci­ate it a great deal. 

Huie: Well, would you say the oth­er side of that coin is that you were the recip­i­ent of all the protest vote in Wisconsin? I mean that they were vot­ing for you in order to protest against what what you out­line have been the fail­ures of the administration.

McCarthy: That might well be, Mr. Huie.

Hazlitt: Senator, I want­ed to ask you about this word McCarthyism.” Am I right in sup­pos­ing that the first one who used that word was Owen Lattimore in tes­ti­mo­ny before the Tydings committee?

McCarthy: Owen Lattimore first used it— Let me cor­rect myself. I think it was first used by Lattimore or by The Daily Worker, but the tes­ti­mo­ny now is that forty top com­mu­nists met in New York and decid­ed how they would fight McCarthy and they then coined the phrase McCarthyism. Now as to the date of that, whether that was the day before Lattimore tes­ti­fied or the day after I frankly don’t know.

Hazlitt: But that’s the ori­gin, as you see it. Either The Daily Worker’s pub­li­ca­tion of it or the Owen Lattimore tes­ti­mo­ny was the first time it was used.

McCarthy: Yes. Or the tes­ti­mo­ny by Howard Rushmore that forty com­mu­nists met and said we’ll coin the phrase McCarthyism and use that.

Hazlitt: I want­ed to ask you here some­thing about a point that came up in the Congressional tes­ti­mo­ny about the Institute of Pacific Relations. This was about a year ago. And it was a let­ter writ­ten by the Secretary of the IPR to a Mr. Barnett, ask­ing about a meet­ing they were going to have at Mont-Tremblant and the peo­ple that they ought to invite to that meet­ing. And William Lockwood says here in writ­ing as Secretary of the IPR, Another pos­si­bil­i­ty we might con­sid­er is some­one from Knox’ office or Stimson’s. Cole and Hiss,” mean­ing Alger Hiss, men­tioned Adlai Stevens, one of Knox’s spe­cial assis­tants—” Well, that must mean Adlai Stevenson, because he was one of Knox’s spe­cial assis­tants then and there was no Stevens.” Now why, in your opin­ion, would Hiss back in 1942 have rec­om­mend­ed Adlai Stevenson as a par­tic­i­pant in that meet­ing? What qual­i­fi­ca­tions did Adlai Stevenson have as let’s say a Far-eastern expert at that time?

McCarthy: Well, all the qual­i­fi­ca­tions that Alger Hiss want­ed in a man, I would say. And keep in mind that Cole, the oth­er man rec­om­mend­ed by Alger Hiss, has been named under oath sev­en time as either a com­mu­nist or an espi­onage agent. 

Huie: Uh, Senator…

McCarthy: Let me say this. I’d rather not go into Stevenson’s record in too great detail at this time, because we have just com­plet­ed a com­plete and thor­ough research on Adlai Stevenson.

Hazlitt: Who is we?”

McCarthy: Well… And I intend to give that pic­ture on a nation­wide net­work, and tele­vi­sion I hope also. And after I give that pic­ture of Stevenson, which isn’t a pic­ture that I have cre­at­ed, it’s his own history—it’s Adlai Stevenson’s his­to­ry of Adlai Stevenson since the time he entered the Agriculture Department in 1933, from Alger Hiss and [inaudi­ble] the rest. And after I give that his­to­ry of Stevenson, if the American peo­ple want him they can have him. I don’t think they’ll want him.

Huie: Well Senator, I gath­er from what you say that it’s fair to infer that you will not avoid per­son­al­i­ties in your thir­teen states that you expect to speak in.

McCarthy: I will nev­er avoid giv­ing the facts to the American peo­ple, Mr. Huie. It’s so easy, you see, to talk about com­mu­nism gen­er­al­ly. To talk about the sell­out in China and Korea gen­er­al­ly. But unless you call the role of the trai­tors, unless you call the role of those who have been respon­si­ble for the sui­ci­dal for­eign pol­i­cy, it’s a waste of the speak­er’s time and the audi­ence time. And I don’t intend to ever get up and in gen­er­al terms talk about trea­son, talk about sell­outs. You see, for­eign pol­i­cy isn’t like Little Topsy, it does­n’t just grow. Treason isn’t like Little Topsy, it does­n’t just grow. It’s cre­at­ed by men with faces and men with names. And I think those of us who’ve been elect­ed by the American peo­ple to man the watch­tow­ers, unless we have the intel­li­gence to rec­og­nize the trai­tors and then—if I may use a word which we use in Wisconsin—unless we have the guts to name them, we should be tak­en down from those watch­tow­ers and should not be rep­re­sent­ing the American peo­ple. And I don’t intend to ever avoid giv­ing the names of trai­tors, giv­ing the names of com­mu­nists, if I dis­cov­er them in impor­tant positions.

Hazlitt: Well Senator, we appre­ci­ate it very much for your being with us tonight.

McCarthy: Well, thank you, Mr. Hazlitt.

Knight: The edi­to­r­i­al board for this edi­tion of the Longines Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huie and Mr. Henry Hazlitt. Our dis­tin­guished guest was the hon­or­able Joseph R. McCarthy, United States Senator from Wisconsin.

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