For a long time I think we real­ly thought of him as sort of the Gandalf in the fam­i­ly. We had real­ly very lit­tle idea what he actu­al­ly did, but he was radi­at­ing kind of a qui­et, will­ful integri­ty which I think real­ly was the foun­da­tion of much of what hap­pened in his kind of shep­herd­ing of many of the­se process­es.