The sec­ond phase is nobody cared. That’s a real­ly good thing. Because you can actu­al­ly do engi­neer­ing work with­out hav­ing grand ambi­tions or hav­ing lots of peo­ple, say at oth­er stan­dards orga­ni­za­tions, sud­den­ly get inter­est­ed. They did­n’t know what was hit­ting them.